How skilled do you have to be to build the MS?

AndrewG · Post by **AndrewG** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:38 am

I have dealt with computers and electronics for a long time and have soldered quite a bit so I am pretty confident that I could handle this, BUT....

-I wonder if the instructions are laid out very clearly.

-If just a regular old pen iron would be good enough. (I actually have a smaller tipped butane one I love but it eats through the gas like crazy)

-If an experienced solderer would maybe need a stimulator too.

The reason I ask is cause a v2.2 board is a bunch cheaper right now but it looks like I'll have to build some flyback circuitry and the ignition driver onto it which ups the price a little more and the basic instructions I've seen for adding those components is more sub-par than I'm used to.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is.... I can get a v2.2 for $140 but then I need the flyback and ignition parts and I can't figure out if I'd need any other small components. On the other hand, I can get a v3 with things already included on a better quality board for $180.... Hmm. If they both do the same exact thing then obviously I'd probably want to go with the 2.2 but I don't want to get myself into trouble by not knowing how to modify or add stuff to it. I've also been tempted to get a v3 from Ebay that's already built and tested for $260 but I really only have about $300 to my name right now and most of that is what's left on my credit card....

So yeah, I guess I've been kind of rambling but as you can see, I don't have a clear direction I want to go. So many people say so many different things so one day I feel like assembling one and then one day I just want to buy it already made so I can get to drivign my car again. If anyone has info to help my decision or at least help me decipher my options, then please let me know.

Post by **efahl** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:37 pm

AndrewG wrote:-I wonder if the instructions are laid out very clearly.

To be truthful, I laughed out loud when I read that one. Yes, they are the best instructions you will ever see.

-If just a regular old pen iron would be good enough. (I actually have a smaller tipped butane one I love but it eats through the gas like crazy)

Yes, probably thousands of v1.01 and v2.2 boards have been assembled with simple rat-shack pencil irons. If you are working on a v3 4-layer board, then you need to make sure you can get enough heat to avoid cold joints, but if your pencil iron has enough thermal mass, it should work fine.

-If an experienced solderer would maybe need a stimulator too.

The stim is not just to test your soldering, it is your training tool that allows you to make sure that you have all the hardware and software working properly and well understood before you lift the hood on your car. It is an invaluable aid and shortens your learning curve quite considerably.

it looks like I'll have to build some flyback circuitry

Only if you plan on running low impedance injectors.

So yeah, I guess I've been kind of rambling but as you can see, I don't have a clear direction I want to go.

Read more and when you are done, read some more. But, as always, I recommend building everything yourself.

Eric

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:09 pm

My first electronics kit was the stim, my second kit was the relay board and the third was my MS. While it's not installed in the car yet, my MS checks out perfectly on the bench (inside my house), hooked up with the actual wiring harness, all sensors and the intake manifold.

The manual/directions are awesome. If you should you stray, but have done your homework, the forum support is great too.

If you are willing to take the time to read the manual (a few times) and learn about EFI, don't worry about the support; it's there. Just remember, it's "Do it Yourself", so while there is help, it's your project.

Jack

AndrewG · Post by **AndrewG** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:33 pm

Thanks for the info guys.

Umm I thought I was always at the wrong page when I clicked to msinfo/ms2/V3assemble.htm ....to me it always just seemed like a checklist or something with a bunch of part numbers. I suppose that's because I'm more of a visual learner. I know I could still build it but I'm thinking I will just buy one assembled since those directions might slow me down more than I'd like.

The only other thing I'm curious about is... Does the MS always know the rate at which the injectors should be firing just based on the temp sensors and map sensors? I'm assuming you have to enter in the obvious info like whether it's 4 or 6 cyl and stuff like that but are there any other sensors or settings that are supposed to tell them when to fire?

Alrighty then, I'm off to order an MS! Since everyone recommends a stim, I think the cost of that and other components probably needed would put me close to what a prebuilt one would be.

Thank you kind sirs.

Minami Kotaro · Post by **Minami Kotaro** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:12 am

If I can build one, anyone can. I had never soldered anything before and, due to the repeated exposure to high heat at my former baking job, my fingers are nerve dead and barely work.

My MegaSquirt isn't pretty but it has worked for over a year now.

Matt Cramer · Post by **Matt Cramer** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:20 am

I also built a Megasquirt with almost no previous solder experience and a cheap Radio Shack pencil iron. All I knew about soldering when I started was that you shouldn't touch the iron directly to the solder. The results came out very well.

And the directions make a lot more sense when you have the actual circuit board in your hands.

Post by **efahl** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:05 am

AndrewG wrote:Does the MS always know the rate at which the injectors should be firing just based on the temp sensors and map sensors?

It uses the tachometer input to know how often to fire, those sensors you mention produce signals upon which the duration of the injection pulse is based. Install MegaTune (look for the newest version in my sig) and play with it, you will learn a lot just by looking through the menus.

Eric

AndrewG · Post by **AndrewG** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:47 pm

efahl wrote:
AndrewG wrote:Does the MS always know the rate at which the injectors should be firing just based on the temp sensors and map sensors?
It uses the tachometer input to know how often to fire, those sensors you mention produce signals upon which the duration of the injection pulse is based. Install MegaTune (look for the newest version in my sig) and play with it, you will learn a lot just by looking through the menus.

Eric

Thanks efahl, but what exactly is the tach signal it would be reading? The tach off the coil if I decide to use that or the signal off the output of the edis module? I'm guessing if I didn't use MS for ignition then I would need a clean signal from my coil right?

If my coil fires how I think it does, there would be 3 signals per revolution, can you set that up in MS how many signals or what values equal 1 rpm?

matt_fulghum · Post by **matt_fulghum** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:41 pm

just remember to heat both the wire and the pad and hold the heat on the pad long enough to make a good joint and you should be fine.

I hadn't soldered anything in years (in fact since I was about 11 or 12, 18 now) and after a couple joints I had it down again. I recommend you have an eyeloop or magnifying glass of some kind, as well as rubbing alcohol or flux cleaning spray, also a multimeter couldn't hurt for checking things over.

Aside from that it's really not that bad. Make sure you get the notches on the ICs aligned right, the bands on the diodes, and the + side on the electrolytic caps correct, and you should be good.

Bobzooki · Post by **Bobzooki** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:02 pm

I'm a former NASA certified solderer. I have no problem with the soldering, and as a former EE (I'm a software guy now), I figure the electronics side of this will be a snap. Surprise! My EYES are my biggest problem these days! Gotta get a magnifying light to do my soldering.

:grumble: :grumble: :grumble:

Post by **efahl** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:50 pm

Here's a thread on that very topic with some useful suggestions for sources and types of magnifiers:

viewtopic.php?t=11266

Eric

lander · Post by **lander** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:44 am

My MSII and stimulator is finished.
Takes me only two days... I had no experience with building electronics, but I have experienced with engine wiring.

Filip

510rob · Post by **510rob** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:56 am

(are you the same "Lander" with the BEAMS-powered MR2 I've seen mentioned on MR2OC?)

lander · Post by **lander** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:07 am

510rob wrote:(are you the same "Lander" with the BEAMS-powered MR2 I've seen mentioned on MR2OC?)

YEAH

))))

I am building MS2 for my Suzuki Swift Kit Car

My website is http://lander.tuning.cz/

The world is small!!!

))

Lander

Turbo Phil · Post by **Turbo Phil** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:47 am

Building the Megasquirt is simple,it is the loading of software that i am having trouble with.I am more mechanical than computer literate.
Phil

Joethemechanic · Post by **Joethemechanic** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:43 pm

I am an auto mechanic

I specialize in diagnostics

I built My first MS after succesfully building a DIY-WB ( Do It Yourself Wide Band ) this is a type of oxygen sensor.

I had no soldiering skills outside a butane torch and trailer wiring.

Simply put, the MS does require some PRACTICE, not neccacerily SKILL at soldiering. actually it is quite easy once you get the hang of it, wich is why most recomend starting on the stim, it is smaller, cheeper and less parts, so if you mess up its not the end of the world.

outside of building it, in my opinion, the most underated aspect(s) of the MS are the MEGATUNE and the USERS MANUAL. I have delt with , installed, modified and ( finally ) tuned MANY aftermarket and OEM fuel injection systems, GM ( Tunercat, EPROM and OBD2 flash ), Ford ( piggyback ) Toyota ( Piggyback ) HonData, Holley, Edelbrock, Crane, and even helped A high dollar shop down the street tune a brand new Mitsubishi EVO with a $$$$$ dedicated iterface tuning module ( read that JUNK ) and none even is in the same class as the MS and MEGATUNE for ease of use, intuative tuning and support. I cant stress this enough, MS does what you tell it to, predictably and accuratly, and Megatune Is the benchmark that none of the above mentioned systems can even touch. I know it sounds hard to belive for a $200 ECU and FREE software, but take it from someone with expieriance, its true. The last Holley commander system I tuned for a guy ( 454 bbc with a blower ) I was constantlly wishing it was an MS, It was cumbersome, counterintuative, didnt give me the controll I needed ( most irritating was the accel enrich, couldnt get it rich enough ) plain sucked. By all means, jump right in

Joe

superchuckles · Post by **superchuckles** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:09 am

about soldering - something most people who lack experience soldering don't know about/use is flux. even with flux core solder, using paste flux makes the difference between a difficult assembly, and soldering between close pins without having solder "bridge" between two points. indeed, with paste flux, i have re-flowed cache chips, memory chips, & even a few of the older p2-p3 chips (which would be impossible without flux). unless you have an extremely fine point on your soldering iron (even if you do), you should get & use some paste flux for this thing. there are several transistors on this (the smaller ones like Q4, Q19, etc) that for some reason they chose to layout the legs on the circuit board all lined up together (i.e. no bending of legs required). that's great, but it makes for the legs being extremely close (actually, soldering surface mount chips by comparison seems like childsplay). why they chose to do this is a mystery to me, since - well, this & perhaps 1 other circuit board on the planet do it this way (most boards solder in transistors with the legs staggered on the smaller ones like this). not that i'm knocking the MS in any way, i love the thing & have a hard time trying to explain to people just how much better this thing is than whatever engine management system they have in their vehicle (regardless of how much they've spent on it......). anyhow, my point being - the flux will help you keep from getting bridges on those close joints, and it will help make a better electrical connection. to clean it all off afterwards, use alcohol (yes, you can pour it right on the board liberally) & a soft toothbrush to clean it all off. i even went so far as to use soap & water after the alcohol, just to make sure no residue was remaining. just make sure you have the board & components fully clean & dry before plugging in any power to it.

oughtsix · Post by **oughtsix** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:29 am

$300 may get you started but it is not going to be enough to get a running system.

Here is my partial bill of materials:
http://www.hitechengineering.net/DNN/Me ... fault.aspx

I don't mean to rain on your parade I am just trying to help you be realistic.

Post by **efahl** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:24 am

oughtsix wrote:$300 may get you started but it is not going to be enough to get a running system.

Well, $300 is not very far off. We did on for $415 ($315.05 for parts on the car + $100 for the MS) with all new parts for injectors, FPR, rail, plumbing lines and so on... http://www.not2fast.com/audi/5ktqa/ms-2004/

Chevydave · Post by **Chevydave** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:00 am

With any alterations you make to an auto you must exercise caution and patience especialy in hi perf tuning. I wish I would have built my MS2 from a kit it is by far more complex than the other fuel systems I have had in the past. But complexity should give more ponies at the ground, fuel mileage or whatever you are looking for.

If you do not count the cost before you start to build, (any project) you will not have enough (assets/time/patience) to finish the project and all who look will see the short sightedness and failure.

MSefi.com read only forum (Jan.15,2018)

How skilled do you have to be to build the MS?

How skilled do you have to be to build the MS?

Re: How skilled do you have to be to build the MS?

assembly