Ethanol injectors/pump/regulator

bohalrantipol · Post by **bohalrantipol** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:05 pm

I am in the process of building a 914 engine (stroked and bored out to 2.7 liter). It will have a compression ratio of about 13:1. I kinda built it originally with the intentions of putting race gas through it, but recent aquisitions of brewing equipment has sent me down the path of ethanol. the cooling effect for my engine would be phenomenol also since these engines are notorious for heat associated damage. The question i have for you guys is what adjustments i need to make? What size injectors should i go with? and what kind of treatments should i do the the fue ltank/lines to make it more "compatible"? Also I have an aeromotive a1000 regulator, and i do not know if that is ethanol compatible, plus i need a pump. any comments would be greatly appreciated. I am have not set up the megasquirt system yet is there any changes to that design that i need to do? I am also planning on running a wideband O2 sensor with the inova

bohalrantipol · Post by **bohalrantipol** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:06 pm

inovative controller sorry, and it is in a 1978 914, so plastic lines, steel tank etc.
Thanks

schmidt · Post by **schmidt** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:54 pm

Hi,

Ethanol injectors are ~ 30 - 40% bigger than Gasoline injectors... About the steel tank, just clean it very well and you're good (ethanol takes all the dirt that gas don't). Make shure that you don't have rust on it...
You won't have any problems with plastic lines too.

Is your 914 engine air-cooled ? Here in Brazil most of racing VW boxer engines runs with gas due the high ethanol consumption, so if you don't care about this, go ahead ! (we have ethanol on the gas station

)

FYI, you MUST have a fuel pump that can support ethanol !

Cheers
Daniel[/quote]

bohalrantipol · Post by **bohalrantipol** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:04 pm

yeah it is aircooled type 4 engine. I am actually gonna make my own ethanol, got some pretty decent science equipment at my disposal so i hope to be ablt to manufacture some decent quality stuff. About the pump, what do you recommend? I have been haveing problems finding one suitable.

schmidt · Post by **schmidt** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:21 pm

You can try one from K-Jetronic systems (VW fox pump), people here used to use them on drag racing due it's high flow(nowdays they run with aeromotive), but I don't know how long it can deal with ethanol...

Maybe you can try one from Chevy Flexfuel trucks, I'm pretty shure that a pump that can resist to E85 can run E100 without any issue.

If you don't care about your current fuel pump, just wash the tank, put a new fuel filter (and change every 5k miles). It'll work, but you don't know for how long ... I know people running with stock gas pumps with ethanol for 100.000 Km, but it seems more lucky than any other thing.

Sry about my english.

Cheers

bohalrantipol · Post by **bohalrantipol** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:10 am

English is fine, mine is just as bad and its supposed to be mynative language. Thanks for the help.

flyinhillbilly · Post by **flyinhillbilly** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:11 pm

so is the only diffrence the size of the injectors, or are the seals made of a diffrent material? i'm looking at some 96 lb/hr injectors made by venom, i found on ebay, i'm looking for something that can handle methanol for my soon to be turbo ( nitrous now ) 406.

flyinhillbilly · Post by **flyinhillbilly** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:04 pm

i asked the seller and they said the injectors are compatable with methanol.

guess i should have done that first

bohalrantipol · Post by **bohalrantipol** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:10 am

those are some big injectors. So are all of another ECU products compatible with methanol/ethanol? I am still kinda in the market.

flyinhillbilly · Post by **flyinhillbilly** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:08 am

yea, they are huge, but they're gonna have to be if i'm going to reach my goal of 1000 rwhp, as far as i know all of them are compatable with methanol, i'd ask just to be sure.

flyinhillbilly · Post by **flyinhillbilly** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:04 am

bohalrantipol wrote: I have an aeromotive a1000 regulator, and i do not know if that is ethanol compatible

it is

bohalrantipol · Post by **bohalrantipol** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:59 am

Thanks, I actually talked with someone at areomotive and they said this:

"Many use the A1000 fuel pump for up to 550 HP naturally aspirated, up to 400
HP forced induction. It will last as long as any of the other pumps that
are recommended for alcohol use, even though the A1000 is not. Normally you
can get a minimum of one racing season, sometimes as much as 2, before
returning for rebuild/repair."

Sounds pretty bad allthough i do not know if ethanol is as harsh as methanol.

bohalrantipol · Post by **bohalrantipol** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:42 am

And what type of rubber hose can i use for flexable connections? i have a bunch of SS braided fuel hose, would that get eaten up by the ethanol?

aero · Post by **aero** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:48 pm

bohalrantipol wrote: Sounds pretty bad allthough i do not know if ethanol is as harsh as methanol.

Ethanol is much less corrosive than methanol.

flyinhillbilly · Post by **flyinhillbilly** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:41 pm

bohalrantipol wrote:And what type of rubber hose can i use for flexable connections? i have a bunch of SS braided fuel hose, would that get eaten up by the ethanol?

most of your good quailty braided stainless hoses are ok for methanol.

bohalrantipol · Post by **bohalrantipol** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:57 am

Can you use normal fuel hose? I get conflicting oppinions on that one.

jsmcortina · Post by **jsmcortina** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:38 am

Check with your supplier before you buy and/or switch to a supplier familiar with these fuels.

If they don't _think_ it supports methanol/ethanol or do not know what they are talking about then do not buy.

James

Pascal06 · Post by **Pascal06** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:51 pm

Hello everyone there,
I'm very interested by megasquirt's hability of handling flex fuel.
Here in France, ethanol is a very new stuff, but I plan to convert my old car !
So, do you know vendors in europe that sell all needed parts (fuel pump, line hoses, pressure regulator, filter, etc...) that can resist to ethanol ?
Thanks in advance...

Pascal

bohalrantipol · Post by **bohalrantipol** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:44 pm

sorry, i have no idea where to get it over there, you could get things shipped form jeggs or summit to there but that might be pricey.

TT350chevelle · Post by **TT350chevelle** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:28 pm

flyinhillbilly wrote:yea, they are huge, but they're gonna have to be if i'm going to reach my goal of 1000 rwhp, as far as i know all of them are compatable with methanol, i'd ask just to be sure.

Those injectors will be way to small for 1000rwhp on methanol, 8-96lb/hr injectors will only support about 630 crank HP. If you run 8-160 lb/hr injectors @ 95% you should be good for aprox 1000 crank HP, still short of 1000 rwhp but closer.
This will obviously require a fuel pump that will maintain the correct pressure differential accross the injectors and flow the required amount of fuel, thats a very serious pump and I'm going to guess that you "maybe" limited to a belt drive setup.

Brad J.
PS:The above comments are assuming forced induction and max power.

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