MSefi.com read only forum (Jan.15,2018)

Inserted into my M10 engine. Have MS injector opening time set to .8ms, makes PW @ idle about 1.3ms. Believe it or not, it idles "OK". (2 squirt, Alternating)

Other than static flow data, I've had difficulty finding any reference data for opening time. I guess I can keep decreasing my opening time in MS until I have issues.

Anybody have experience with these? I horse traded for set of 4.

Holy jesus!! 95#/hr!??!!!

You would have to be running some serious boost to need those!!

FWIW, i actually looked at using Delphi injectors in my 2.0L turbo 4cylinder engine, but I had them flow tested by my friend's performance workshop and found that they are rather unsuitbale for a small engine.

Delphi injectors are designed for V8 applications.... they just flow LOTS of fuel, at any %DC.

Use Sard injectors, they have much better flow control at lower duty cycles. See this quick graph to explain.

NB: Delphi = Rochester

The Witzl wrote:Holy jesus!! 95#/hr!??!!!

You would have to be running some serious boost to need those!!

FWIW, i actually looked at using Delphi injectors in my 2.0L turbo 4cylinder engine, but I had them flow tested by my friend's performance workshop and found that they are rather unsuitbale for a small engine.

Delphi injectors are designed for V8 applications.... they just flow LOTS of fuel, at any %DC.

Use Sard injectors, they have much better flow control at lower duty cycles. See this quick graph to explain.

NB: Delphi = Rochester

Interesting graph....?

Yeah, 95lb. Honestly, it doesn't seem to bad so far. .8ms opening time they seem very happy. Also, they're same dimensions /EV1 Bosh plugs as the old injectors.

I just finished bolting new turbo/manifold in. (Holset replacing Rajay)

Yes. Alot of boost. If it works out as planned I have financial commitment for One Lap next year....

Will hopefully have some runs in this weekend.

you'd have to be making about 600HP to need injectors that big!!

I've got 660cc/min (approx 60#/hr) injectors for my engine that I am expecting to make 400-450HP from, and even then I have got headroom added when i picked my injectors!!


I know my graph is a little interesting, but it is a fairly accurate depiction of the way that the Delphi/Rochester injectors flow fuel.

Notice that down the low end of DC%, they flow a lot of fuel - whereas a Sard injector flows a lot less. Down this end of things, with a smallish 4cylinder engine... this is where you need an injector with precise control over the flow of fuel.
The sard grants that
The Delphi certainly does not.

You need that control over flow, because off boost, your engine needs bugger all fuel to run - by comparison with how much it needs at full boost up high RPM.

If they are working for you - thats good... but you will have difficulty tuning the engine down low.

I agree, they're grossly oversized. Did I mention that I horse traded for them? I traded an old Cisco router/setup for the set of 4. My net cost = 0.

700CC was what I was shooting for. This just kinda fell into place.

Hopefully I can make a few runs today. I'm sure you're right about low end. Whatever I can't tune out I'll live with for now.

well you got a good deal then

If you can live with it for now, then you should be able to get them to work.... they'd be ok up top with a lot of boost, but down low they will suck pretty badly.

Best of luck

I;m not exactly sure what an M10 engine is, but I'm running 4 1000cc (95-96lb) injectors on a 1.9L 4 cylinder.

I found best results wil batch fire 2 squirts. At first I had opening time set to 1.0ms, but is was always too rich, even at 0%VE, I changed the open time to .9 an it seem ok, and them .8...it ran at .8ms, but somtimes they wouldn't open at all on decel and sjut stay shut..Most likly the battery compensation was set wrong...I set it back up to .9ms and have left it there It seems pretty good too. I will lean out to about 15 at ilde, but with the cams it runs like garbage, so I had to turn the VE up a little.

You can always call the injector manufacture and see what they say. Most likly they will have opening times at different fuel pressures and voltages.. so that you can also set a batter compensation value too.

S.Bretz wrote:I;m not exactly sure what an M10 engine is, but I'm running 4 1000cc (95-96lb) injectors on a 1.9L 4 cylinder.

I found best results wil batch fire 2 squirts. At first I had opening time set to 1.0ms, but is was always too rich, even at 0%VE, I changed the open time to .9 an it seem ok, and them .8...it ran at .8ms, but somtimes they wouldn't open at all on decel and sjut stay shut..Most likly the battery compensation was set wrong...I set it back up to .9ms and have left it there It seems pretty good too. I will lean out to about 15 at ilde, but with the cams it runs like garbage, so I had to turn the VE up a little.

You can always call the injector manufacture and see what they say. Most likly they will have opening times at different fuel pressures and voltages.. so that you can also set a batter compensation value too.

Sorry. Have been in BMW forums.
M10 = BMW M10 block. It's bored 2.05L 4 cyl.

I'm currently using the injectors with .8ms opening. THey are a bit rough on the low side, but I can live with that.

This is some good info on the settings for 95# injectors.
I just picked up a set last week. I havent put them in yet just waiting to wire in a resistor box for them.
I have just about maxed out my 750cc injectors with a static rate of 65psi.
These 95# will sit around 43.5psi.
Just hope I can get some gas milage with them, I was averaging 19.5 with the 750cc and 18psi of boost.

Gas milage? Hrmm.. Yeah I dunno. I need to make a 1 tank trip on the highway.

I've been painting the car/new wheel hubs/etc. Will get around to that soon.

FWIW, my PWM is 55%, .8ms opening. Back to stock 3 bar FPR.

My city milage took a bunch to the sack when I put the 95's in. Highway seems about the same (35ish).

I was getting about 29city-39hwy before with 40's a stock computer with a 2 bar sensor and a safc (still turbo)...I installed the MS and the 95's and get like 22-25cty and about 35 ish hwy.

I think the nozzles/holes are just too large to get a good atomization

Sam aren't you also using simul injection instead of alternating? I could tell by your fuel map haha. so your idle is going to be rich as well as low rpm. I'm using 86# injectors and i couldn't get the ve table to be low enough at idle to not use alternating.
-teb

I can get it to run lean enough to stall the engine out.

I can't get it to run on alternating...it runs like but. After I talked to you and you mentioned the injector paring, I;m second guessing my pairing. I'm thinking that I "might" have paired them somthing like 1&2/3&4 or 1&3/2&4. When I get time, I'll bust out the multimeter and find out.

Have you found these injectors flow rate to be consistient between the 4 injectors? did you purchase them new or used?

JAM wrote:Have you found these injectors flow rate to be consistient between the 4 injectors? did you purchase them new or used?

If you're asking me, yes flow matched.
Not really purchased, but they were new.

I like them. Some idle issues, a little over-rich on low end, but they're firehoses......