Dealer Problems

grippo · Post by **grippo** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:23 am

During the past year we have had dealers default payment on us to the tune of $8000. The two dealers involved are SparkandFuel - US ($5900) and RoadRaceTech -Germany($2075). The last time I tried both of these still had web sites up and working emails. Yet they will not respond. I haven't asked for payment immediately or in one lump sum. I just want a response and have not gotten any. And no stock has been returned. This is extremely frustrating and we have started legal action. In the meantime, if anyone is buying anything from these people or selling to them, they should be extremely wary - if they would shaft us, they would certainly shaft an individual customer.

We have a very informal and lax payment policy with dealers and with individuals when we were selling to people over the last 5 or so years. Despite this policy, and having sold to many thousands of individuals, we have almost never had a default. You won't see that kind of honesty in many groups. We would like to continue to maintain that policy, but obviously we can't afford to continue to lose that kind of money.

So, if you are delaer - you MUST answer emails. I can see it taking a day or two sometimes, but to just refuse to answer is intolerable and will result in termination of the dealership. We just don't have the time to monitor and investigate this sort of thing. If you are an individual, please do not patronize Spark and Fuel or RoadRaceTech. If there are no consequences to blowing us off, then it will only get worse and we will have to operate the way other companies do, and we don't want to do that.

tebriel · Post by **tebriel** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:04 am

Sorry to hear that, and glad that I've only bought from DIY

Good luck on getting a response, and it's always a bummer to have to put pressure on people by airing the dirty laundry to the community. :-/
-teb

Toehead · Post by **Toehead** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:46 am

It is never fun to have to do that.

Gary seemed like such a nice guy. He helped me out a lot this spring.. even paid for shipping. In fact, I have dealt with DIY and S&F, and both were helpful above and beyond.

I am sorry to hear that this happened in what is a very upstanding community.

dieselgeek · Post by **dieselgeek** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:01 am

Toehead wrote:It is never fun to have to do that.

Gary seemed like such a nice guy. He helped me out a lot this spring.. even paid for shipping. In fact, I have dealt with DIY and S&F, and both were helpful above and beyond.

I am sorry to hear that this happened in what is a very upstanding community.

paid for shipping on multiple screwed up orders? I have repaired more spark and fuel EMS's for frustrated people than any other vendor...

one guy in Kansas paid for an MS2, had to send it back multiple times, then ended up receiving an MS1 unit randonly on the final attempt. I fixed that one too.

We need some way to come up with qualifications to keep the losers from ruining our reputation, I know that Spark and Fuel has a ton of pissed off Mustang customers. This is not good for Megasquirt... frankly I am glad the guy is finally getting squeezed out of the business, I'm tired of supporting his foulups for free.

Toehead · Post by **Toehead** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:09 am

No,

I ordered my kit form DIY. It was shipped same day, and in hand in 2. The best ordering expereince I have ever had with any company.

Their kit was excellent, and easy to put together.

Gary cleaned my MS in the ultrasonic cleaner to get rid of some stubborn flux residue. He did this for free, and it helped me out.

The DIY guys awesome. They always answer my questions, and if I ever have specific questions i just ask them. They also have sent me spare parts for free! (cpu pins). Truly standup guys.

Post by **Bruce Bowling** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:21 am

dieselgeek wrote: We need some way to come up with qualifications to keep the losers from ruining our reputation, I know that Spark and Fuel has a ton of pissed off Mustang customers. This is not good for Megasquirt... frankly I am glad the guy is finally getting squeezed out of the business, I'm tired of supporting his foulups for free.

You are correct on this. We have been somewhat flexible in allowing organizations become distributors, this will become much more constrained from our end from here on out. We (Al and myself) have spent far more time than can be imagined getting the supply chain going. Live and learn.

I believe that you should help people succeed. And, over time, it becomes clear who will succeed over the long haul and those who will not. No one ever say that we did not give people a chance - its up to the organization/individual to take it from there.

But with the bad also comes the good. We have solid resellers who have proven themselves over time. And we now have a good supply chain in place, it has never been better from a product supply standpoint. And with a few new goodies becoming available in the next month or so I believe that things will be the best ever!

- Bruce

oughtsix · Post by **oughtsix** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:39 am

I have been following MegaSquirt for four years now and I have been a user for two years now. I think what you guys have accomplished is simply amazing and I am incredibly grateful to have such an incredible product at such a reasonable price.

I really feel like a leach having benefited so much from other peoples work. It is certainly none of my business and feel free to [snip] my post but is this your lively hoods or do you two have other employment? If MegaSquirt is your lively hood I sincerely hope you guys are doing pretty well as I have gotten so much out of my MegaSquirt experience.

S.Bretz · Post by **S.Bretz** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:40 am

Sucks that some people will take a mile when you give them an inche...I hope things work out in the end. If you guys want to open up a paypay account for poeple to help donate to "recover" the owned money, I'm willing to throw down a few bucks....whatever it takes to help keep the ball rolling. I can see how $8k could seriously slow down the R&D on new products....products we all could benifiet from.

Post by **Bruce Bowling** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:54 pm

oughtsix wrote:It is certainly none of my business and feel free to [snip] my post but is this your lively hoods or do you two have other employment? If MegaSquirt is your lively hood I sincerely hope you guys are doing pretty well as I have gotten so much out of my MegaSquirt experience.

Nope, we both have employment, the MS effort is just a service to the DIY community. There really is not enough profit in MS to make this a full-time gig at the current resale amount. And that's OK!

- Bruce

Post by **Bruce Bowling** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:00 pm

S.Bretz wrote: I'm willing to throw down a few bucks....whatever it takes to help keep the ball rolling. I can see how $8k could seriously slow down the R&D on new products....products we all could benifiet from.

Thanks for the offer, it is an extremely nice gesture. We are in good shape with inventory and there is capital for R&D, so this will not impact the MS project. But it is nice to know that people appreciate the efforts, and there are a lot of people here (including yourself) who have contributed greatly. It makes the whole project a blast working with such talented individuals!

- Bruce

dridders · Post by **dridders** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:41 am

I bought a kit last year from RoadRaceTech... and finally needed a lawyer to get my money back, as he always just send me excuses but no parts. He even refused to pay the lawyer, even though he was forced to by law... luckily I had an insurance for that.
Anyway, I can just add from user point of view: do not buy anything at RoadRaceTech, as long as you don't know a good lawyer.

Bruce/Al:
If I can help you in any way from Germany against RoadRaceTech, just let me know

Rangerman · Post by **Rangerman** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:23 am

Bruce,
I have been learning the MS system for about a year now and have been completely blown away with the help and response from these forums. The work that you guys have done on this project is nothing short of fantastic! I bought and still deal with DIY and they ALWAYS answer any questions that I have, usually within hours. I was a driveability tech in the field for years and I now teach it at a tech school, specializing in Ford. I thoughtb I knew stuff....WRONG. I have learned more doing this than I did in my whole carreer! Keep up the good work guys, you ARE appreciated and admired.

oughtsix · Post by **oughtsix** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:41 pm

I would have flat out sold my 1980 Mercedes 450slc if it hadn't been for MegaSquirt! I am confident that it runs better now than the day it was new with the stock K-Jetronic injection.

Simply an incredible product with incredible people behind it! My thanks to all who have contributed!

msoultan · Post by **msoultan** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:24 pm

grippo wrote:If you are an individual, please do not patronize Spark and Fuel or RoadRaceTech. If there are no consequences to blowing us off, then it will only get worse and we will have to operate the way other companies do, and we don't want to do that.

Yeah, Spark and Fuel was advertising free shipping. I ordered an LC-1, but still got charged for shipping. Emails to him were never returned. Small loss, but still a bit annoying...

Mike

synackack · Post by **synackack** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:01 pm

Bruce Bowling wrote:
S.Bretz wrote: I'm willing to throw down a few bucks....whatever it takes to help keep the ball rolling. I can see how $8k could seriously slow down the R&D on new products....products we all could benifiet from.
Thanks for the offer, it is an extremely nice gesture. We are in good shape with inventory and there is capital for R&D, so this will not impact the MS project. But it is nice to know that people appreciate the efforts, and there are a lot of people here (including yourself) who have contributed greatly. It makes the whole project a blast working with such talented individuals!

- Bruce

If you want R&D money or otherwise, count me in as well. I wish I had more to offer.

I have nothing but nice things to say about the design, your support, and Megasquirt in general. I also have nice things to say about DIY.

arlo#1 · Post by **arlo#1** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:57 pm

I am also very happy with what I have learnt from this experiance and my 440 is still weeks or months away from running. My ms2 v3 seems realy advanced as far as letting me do what I want! I purchased my kit from diy as well and they were good to deal with! I hope everything works for you! If you need donations in the future let us all know I understand lawyers can get costly. (although I dont have alot of money but have made money tuning other cars and bikes that excides the money I have into this system and would be happy to help out) And you can let me know If you would like a honest dealer in western Canada. Thank you very much for all you have done for me so far! Arlin.

KaPower · Post by **KaPower** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:46 am

I made an order through spark & fuel. I never recieved my products. I had to file a fraud report through my bank. They got me my money back free of charge!

There is normally a time limit for how long after a purchase you can file a fraud report with your bank, so if anyone out there is waiting for parts. don't delay!

That guy never responded to my emails either...

Jason M

NV Control · Post by **NV Control** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:07 am

Look guys I am only new to all this so I wont say to much BUT I have looked through this forum and stuff and you guys are the best thing that has ever happened to my car as I had the chance to order my first megasquirt for my first project car and I am sure there is to be more!!!!

Its a hard thing to lose money when in business as I ran a computer business here in australia and I got screwed over by a few people too. All the money wasnt recovered and now there is bad blood between people cause of it but at the end of the day money is very important to everyone and I know freindships are to but hey you cant trust everyone.

Look I am willing to through a few dollars your way to help you out and if everyone did that it would be a true sign of how great this community really is.

I hope you get them and they deserve everything they get.

L8r
NV

Rankin · Post by **Rankin** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:51 pm

aaaaaaaaaack,

I wish I would have read this before I ordered from SparkandFuel.com

Time to find an address and hop on a plane!!

grippo · Post by **grippo** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:17 am

When did you order from him? We have set debt collectors on him, but they have not been able to locate him for the last month. No one should be ordering from him and there should be no links to him on any MS website.

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