Major Noise problem in datalog

[phj420]

OK, I have been having one heck of a time.

I am running MSII v3.0 stepper IAC EDIS 4 and code v 2.88

I have been tuning just fine, and I got the car running really good. My Datalogs have been clean, and I have not had any noise problems whatsoever. I took the car on a very fast run through a field, and when I got to asphalt I floored it and the engine died mid acceleration. I tried to start the car and when I cycled the ignition, the fuel pump was cycling on and off, and the Datalog showed a PW of 20ms with 0% duty cycle. I reloaded my MSQ and the car started and ran fine. I was hesitant to drive it again, for fear that if I do not have a laptop with me I will become stranded somewhere.


I noticed that after this initial problem, my datalogs are noisy. I am not using x tau, and it will spike, along with other parameters that are not being used. I went a little nuts. The car has solid engine and transmission mounts. I have a relay board, and the ground was connected at the same place on the chassis that the battery ground was connected to. I moved the battery ground to the transmission, and I grounded the MS to another bolt on the transmission. I wire brushed the connections, and coated everything in Dielectric grease. I also ran another battery ground to the chassis.

I was thinking that maybe the power wasn't clean coming from the alternator, so I installed a 20 amp noise filter on the power supply to the relay board.

I am running EDIS and I was using resistor wire, and non resistor plugs. I replaced the plugs with resistor plugs.

after doing all of these things I decided to go for a drive. I turned on the ignition and before cranking over the car I looked at the gauges. I was getting the spikes without the engine running! I was running Megatune on a Vista notebook, with a USB to serial adaptor. I have been having some problems with Megatune and Vista, so I closed it and opened Tobin's MS Tunerstudio. The noise was gone. I didn't think twice about it, I just figured that it was a Megatune problem all along.

I just went for a drive while datalogging and the car ran great. I had no problems the entire drive. when I got home, x tau was at 2000% and all of the gauges were going crazy again! The car was idling normally. below is a shot of the log.


If this was really happening I would have resets? the car wouldnt run?
I was able to successfully data log and tune until I went for that off road drive. since then I cannot get a good data log to tune with. I have attached the latest log for you guys to see.

I will also include the log that I made when I first had issues as shown above. you can see that there was no noise, and this was with the non resistor plugs and the different grounds, and no power filter. it is called start of problems datalog

If anyone has any ideas it would be greatly appreciated. Please!

-Anthony

[LT401Vette]

I'm guessing that mess is related to a comm problem or the local data getting out of sync with the Controller.
Did you ever shut off during the drive?
There were some reports of the logs and gauges going nuts in TunerStudio, but not lately. After closing TunerStudio and restarting it, all is normal again.
What I believe is happening is that on a loss of connection and reconnection, page 1 isn't getting loaded properly. Some OutputChannels use calculated values that are based on parameters in you tune like #cyl, twoStroke... If those somehow aren't read back correctly by TS your outputchannels can go wacky.
You should be able to fix it by going off line for 5 seconds, then back online or restarting the app.

For an out of sync condition to happen on the current version, you should get a prompt warning you that there are XX parameters different from the Controller. with XX being a large number like 10 or more...

I have not been able to reproduce this problem yet, but it may still be happening. If you come up with a scenario that causes it, please let me know.

BTW, when you post an msq it is best to post one from TunerStudio, then it can be opened by TunerStudio with all of your project settings already setup so they make better sense. MegaTune doesn't save the project settings to the msq yet, so you have to create a project and guess at the settings (C or F, WB or NB, ini...)

[phj420]

Phil,

I did not shut off during the drive. I have found that closing the programs and reopening them will make the noise go away, but it is only temporary. I guess that maybe I should try using a different USB to Serial connector and serial cable. As for the prompt warning about an out of sync condition, I get a warning when I start MSTunerStudio, it says" there were 0 errors and 2 warnings during project load. would you like to review them now?" when I click yes i get this message:
"2 Warnings:
Warning: Constants entry missing comma after ], but corrected:
DualSpkOptn = bits , U08, 601, [0:3] "No Dual Spark", "Dual Tach Inputs", "Falling Cam Sync with Tach or Wheel", "Rising Cam Sync with Tach or Wheel", "Single Crank Wheel Input", "Single Cam Wheel Input", "Dual Inputs, Timing from 1 cam tooth", "M-0 Wheel w/ Falling Crank Sync", "M-0 Wheel w/ Rising Crank Sync", "INVALID", "INVALID", "INVALID", "INVALID", "INVALID", "INVALID", "INVALID"
Warning: Ini entry missing comma, repaired:
afrTable2Tbl, "AF&R Table 2 (MAP)" 0, { egoType >= 3 && dualTable && VEIXOptn == 0 && (ECUType == 1 || ECUType == 2)}"


I am not running dual tables, and I really dont know why it is asking me this. I am not a programmer, and I havent figured out how to change these parameters.

do you think that the comm issues have to do with my usb to serial adapter or my port settings, or is it something else?
I am running V .987.5 TunerStudio



attached is the Tunerstudio project file. I just opened tunerstudio and went to project >save tune as>railtunerstudio2-16.msq as seen below. I hope that that is what you need.

thank you very much for your reply!

[LT401Vette]

That is what I would recommend too. If you are seeing the noise in MegaTune and not in TunerStudio, but eventually TunerStudio starts making wild noise, you are probably dead on.

Those Warnings are only displayed if you have turned on the menu option:
Options --> Advanced --> "Report corrected ini Warnings"

That option is really for those who are writing the ini's, so they know there is a syntax error that should be corrected for future releases.
All Warnings have been corrected by TunerStudio, so your configuration loaded fine.
If TunerStudio comes to an error it doesn't know what to do with, it will report an Error and you will be prompted even without that option on.

[phj420]

Phil,

It is so cool that it corrects its own ini conflicts! I am a big supporter of what you are doing, and I think that Megalogviewer and TunerStudio are both excellent Programs.

The log that shows all of the noise was created through TunerStudio.

I know that in the megamanual, here:

http://www.megamanual.com/connect.htm

Step 5 states:
"In the INI file activated (see below), set:
writeBlocks = off ; Default is on.
interWriteDelay = 1 ; Becomes "interCommandDelay" if writeBlocks is "on"
You may have to play with the USB adapter settings in Windows for the adapter to get it to work (see Control Panel/System/Hardware/Device Manager). If there is a 'buffer' setting, set it as low as you can (often 1 or 0).
Make sure that your com port settings are correct for your serial port or your USB/serial cable. For example, change the baud rate (under 'start/Control Panel/System/Hardware/Device Manager/Ports (COM & LPT)') to 115200 for MS-II.
Try re-installing your USB driver.
Check this thread on the http://www.msefi.com support forums for new info: USB to Serial Adapters. "

do you have any usb adapter settings recommendations different than the ones above?

[LT401Vette]

For TunerStudio you should never need to adjust any of those. TunerStudio automatically adjusts those settings for serial connections with slower timings.

However, it doesn't correct data that gets corrupt coming across the wire. I bought a pile of cheap USB to serial adapters for testing, all but 1 worked great in the test lab. But when I moved to the real world, it was different. Some would loose connection when I started the car, others that would drop out randomly while driving, and I believe I have seen things go wacky similar to yours.

The noise in the car was just messing up some of these poorer quality adapters.

Using a Belkin I bought off eBay really cheap, it always works flawlessly. I have seen many people swear by the PC Express cards too.

[phj420]

I will start with replacement of the serial cable, and if that doesnt fix it I will replace the usb adapter. I really appreciate your help and I will let you know when I update this topic with results. I think that it is kind of strange that there was no issue with it at first, but I think the cable may have become damaged where it connects to the ecu due to the location of the ecu and the way that the cable connects to it at a 90 degree angle.

[phj420]

ok... I replaced my usb to serial cable. it seemed to work for the first 3/4 of my drive. Then, major noise... This is the first datalog that has shown resets. I know that the grounding is good, and I was hoping someone could help me to confirm that the resets are not actually resets, but a serial noise problem like I have been having. The car ran fine when the resets were occurring.

see the log attached below labeled AJ 2-18
I used the msq railturnerstudio2-16 that is posted above.

here is a pic if you are reading this and dont want to download it:
It is showing the resets, while the car is running, and before this section it was logging fine.



I am going to get another serial cable today and see if that helps.... I went to best buy yesterday and they told me that they don't stock serial cables anymore... GO FIGURE.

IF anyone knows what is going on please help.

Thanks
Anthony

[Matt Cramer]

That data log really goes crazy at the end; most of the readings appear to have started showing behaviors that don't match what they should read, including readings that are not sensor outputs. I would suspect the problem, if it is not the serial cable, is either a damaged U6 or a fault in the processor.

[phj420]

OK.. I just went for a drive with a new serial cable and usb to serial adapter......STILL NOISE! I really watched the gauges this time.... I drove until the noise started to happen. then I pulled over, unplugged the USB cable with the engine running, replugged it in, and I got normal gauge readings again.. Granted this was in TunerStudio. I will try it again in megatune to see if it yields the same results. This would lead me to believe that it is a software error and not a hardware error. I turned on an off every accessory on the car while stopped and I could not reproduce the noise. do you guys have any ideas?


Phil said: the local data is out of sync with the controller.... I dont know how to prevent this from happening....

[LT401Vette]

Hmmm, the main noise isn't usually from the accessories as much as the ignition, especially ignition under load. What happens is the radio noise can actually disrupt the signal flowing through the wire enough to turn 0's to 1's and 1's to 0's, so the MS is working fine, but the data is corrupt and useless byt the time it gets to the laptop.

Give MegaTune a try, it often reacts to noise differently and hangs. See what happens there.

Maybe I need to go do some more road tests with some lousey cables and see if I can come up with a good way to detect and recover from these conditions. It would still not be a good thing though as you can never tell if the data is getting corrupt while it is being sent to the controller.

What cables are you using?
Are you on Windows?

[phj420]

Phil, I just went for another drive. I had an incident where the gauges went nuts. During driving and datalogging, when I saw the noise I unplugged and replugged the usb cable so that I could continue datalog normal outputs.

This is made Using TunerStudio. If I unplug a usb while dataloging in Megatune my computer hangs, and I prefer TunerStudio with Vista.
The log is attached below. you can see that as soon as I see noise, I unplug and replug the usb and then the readings are normal again.

I have been looking at PCMCIA cards, but I have a feeling that someone else will eventually have this problem. I am using a radio shack serial cable and I would really like to get to the bottom of this. I using Vista, and running TunerStudio as an administrator.

I replaced the serial cable and usb adapter with new ones. I checked my port settings it is set at 115000 baud.


Can you point me to a good thread on how to modify MSL files? I can easily do it with an xls, but .msl files dont seem to work after I modify them in excel.

Thanks
Anthony

[LT401Vette]

MSL and the xls files are the same thing. I just prefer to use the msl extension as they are tab delimited files, not excel format.

If you are able to reproduce this relatively easily, please go do a session with comm logging on under the communications menu. When it starts giving wacky numbers stop it quickly and copy the TunerStudioLogFile.txt somwhere, zip it up and send it to me.

Maybe the comm noise causes some orphan bytes to shift the och??/ The log would help.

I am going to be out of contact with the world for a week starting Sunday though...

[phj420]

I will do comm logging tomorrow and post the results here. I have to go to Denver for my wife's Birthday tonight and I think she will get upset if I tell her we have to go for a drive in the rail first and make her hold the laptop. If I don't hear from you tomorrow have a good vacation...

Thanks
Anthony

[phj420]

OK, I am converting to Linux for good......

Same Computer, Same Hardware, Same Car, Same Weather, Same Plugs, Same Wires, SAME EVERYTHING!

Different OS

If I run Puppy Linux with TunerStudioMS, and Megatune, I don't have any noise problems. Does anybody know what gives?

I am assuming that as always, it is just a problem with Windows Vista.

here is a datalog I just took via Puppy and TunerStudioMS. you can see it is perfect.


Phil?
Anyone?

[LT401Vette]

Before you do anything rash... TunerStudio has quite a few optimizations of the comm timings that I made more aggressive in 0.987. TunerStudio will speed the comm timings until it sees and error back them up, then speed to within a threshold of the last error.
I have had several people who are getting comm problems with 0.987 that did not have them with the previous releases, so I think I may have gotten too aggressive with the optimizations in 0.987.

I will have another release out within the next week or 2, let's see if that fixes it for you.

[phj420]

Phil,

I hope you had a good vacation.
I will try using windows again when your new release is out. I dont think I will go back to windows permently though.

Do you think that the noise problem could be the OS? Maybe the fact that the linux kernel is more efficent with plug and play hardware than windows has something to do with it.

Do you still want the noisy comm log data?

I drove today for about an hour with no noise in Linux, off road stuff too. It has got to be the OS.

Also, I have some ideas to make Tuner Studio run better on Linux. Where would you like me to post it?


thank you
Anthony

[LT401Vette]

It can be as simple as the way Linux buffers serial data compared to Vista. I do think that all the people who have seen comm glitches have been running vista, so I think that is the one that doesn't like what I have been doing

Go ahead an start a new thread in the TunerStudio forum for any linux suggestions, the feedback is always welcome.

[phj420]

That makes sense. I know that for me there is a problem with MegaTune noise in Vista as well. Do you think that there is a setting in Vista that will allow you to change that buffer, or is it locked away in the kernel somewhere? I know that Windows has their administrator permission settings, along with other things that could make the serial port of low priority.

I think that as more and more people are switching to Vista there are going to be more and more problems. Like I said in an eariler post, BestBuy doesnt carry serial cables anymore! I think that it might be a good suggestion to have MS3 include USB support.