I'm 'squirting a Subaru engine in a fiberglass body buggy and using the relay board to interface with the engine sensors/injectors. Being an "open" vehicle, I'm concerned about exposure to the elements and in particular the relay board - being located close to the engine. It is really exposed!
I've come up with an aluminum chassis box to enclose the relay board assembly. The plan is to cut the box so that one end replaces the relay board extruded chassis end, and the D-sub connector pokes through for cable connection. My next concern was how to weather-proof the connector itself, as these seem to be somewhat of a weak point in the design - at least from a water exposure perspective. I'm not trying to make the relay box and cables submerge-able, but put some effort to increasing reliability if caught in an occasional rain-storm.
I came across a couple of outfits that make D-sub weather-proof connectors (either for chassis or cable mount) which look to be the ideal solution - other than converting to a completely different type of connector. The only potential draw-back I can identify is they use solder pins instead of crimp pins, and I understand crimp-pins are far and above the preferred wire to pin connection. However, the cable appears to be extremely well supported on the cable end version, and the entire MS chassis is "soldered" together anyway?
Any other reason not to use these cable ends? They look like a nice weather-proof upgrade to the standard offerings, and only real solution to making the connections weatherproof.
http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=7347
Jeff
Waterproof D-Sub Connector
Re: Waterproof D-Sub Connector
Jeff,
most likely very good quality. Longevity will depend on how well the cable seals in the cable gland
and how well the casing seals against the chassis fascia.
Soldered pins not a problem, as long as you are good at it.
Using individual wires into the unit will not be a happy solution, unless you use silicon rubber
goo, which is a very mixed blessing.
Heribert
most likely very good quality. Longevity will depend on how well the cable seals in the cable gland
and how well the casing seals against the chassis fascia.
Soldered pins not a problem, as long as you are good at it.
Using individual wires into the unit will not be a happy solution, unless you use silicon rubber
goo, which is a very mixed blessing.
Heribert
If it is not understood , it will not work!
Re: Waterproof D-Sub Connector
That is only a 25 way. Can you locate a 37 way waterproof?
I have soldered all mine in the past, no worries with them. They are supported in the D-SUB casing, and so there are generally no issues like stress points where the solder join is.
You have considered the main connector, but how are you going to take the power, and the sensors to the screw terminals, into the new casing.
Not got any elegant solution for you, I have had similar problems (and had a relay board fail under my engine bay due to corrosion. If you are self assembling the relay board, I would consider an entirely new connector. Just run short wires from the connector mounting point to a new style connector. Same with the screw terminals. Don't install them, but run them via short wires to a differnt waterproof connector.
EG. This is a sealed 35 way as used by the microsquirt. http://www.tycoelectronics.com/catalog/ ... N=776164-1
http://www.tycoelectronics.com/automoti ... 8092-2.pdf
http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/cata ... 1177,13981
Cheers,
Kristian
I have soldered all mine in the past, no worries with them. They are supported in the D-SUB casing, and so there are generally no issues like stress points where the solder join is.
You have considered the main connector, but how are you going to take the power, and the sensors to the screw terminals, into the new casing.
Not got any elegant solution for you, I have had similar problems (and had a relay board fail under my engine bay due to corrosion. If you are self assembling the relay board, I would consider an entirely new connector. Just run short wires from the connector mounting point to a new style connector. Same with the screw terminals. Don't install them, but run them via short wires to a differnt waterproof connector.
EG. This is a sealed 35 way as used by the microsquirt. http://www.tycoelectronics.com/catalog/ ... N=776164-1
http://www.tycoelectronics.com/automoti ... 8092-2.pdf
http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/cata ... 1177,13981
Cheers,
Kristian
MS2 Extra 2.0.1
4 x IRGB14C40LPbF driving wasted COP's BAE403
VR input (60-2 OEM wheel and sensor)
No relay board
4 cylinder n/a, 16v 1368cc Fiat Seicento
4 x IRGB14C40LPbF driving wasted COP's BAE403
VR input (60-2 OEM wheel and sensor)
No relay board
4 cylinder n/a, 16v 1368cc Fiat Seicento
Re: Waterproof D-Sub Connector
I just looked at the housing assembly drawing - and it looks like the 25-pin connector supplied could easily be replaced by a crimp-terminal connector. That would seem so solve any issues about crimping vs. soldering! I do prefer the crimp-pin style connector - primarily because it's much easier to assemble with all the cable pins being able to be attached to the individual wires, then inserting them into the connector. It's tight work soldering the wires into pins - already in the connector, though the pin to connector interface seems to be a bit more secure with the solder-in type. Even trickier to work in short lengths of shrink tubing at each connection!
At any rate - I think these connectors will be just what the Dr. ordered to help keep water and dirt out of the relay box!
Heribert - Agreed on your points. Sealing seems to be in large part care during assembly, but not many other options for this - besides a complete connector change-out.
Jeff
At any rate - I think these connectors will be just what the Dr. ordered to help keep water and dirt out of the relay box!
Heribert - Agreed on your points. Sealing seems to be in large part care during assembly, but not many other options for this - besides a complete connector change-out.
Jeff
Re: Waterproof D-Sub Connector
Here is the other company I found with the waterproof connectors Kristian:kritip wrote:That is only a 25 way. Can you locate a 37 way waterproof?
I have soldered all mine in the past, no worries with them. They are supported in the D-SUB casing, and so there are generally no issues like stress points where the solder join is.
You have considered the main connector, but how are you going to take the power, and the sensors to the screw terminals, into the new casing.
Not got any elegant solution for you, I have had similar problems (and had a relay board fail under my engine bay due to corrosion. If you are self assembling the relay board, I would consider an entirely new connector. Just run short wires from the connector mounting point to a new style connector. Same with the screw terminals. Don't install them, but run them via short wires to a differnt waterproof connector.
Kristian
http://www.conec.com/section8/water.res ... ector.html
Looks like they have a 37 (and higher) pin versions.
No elegant solution for the other connections - yet. I'm planning on straight through wire bundles (or multi-conductor cable) out of the relay "box", probably with a compression type fitting at the transition. At the connector end I'll be using either the AMP Mate-n-lock with the rubber seals, and/or the GM weatherpack style. My relay board has long been assembled, so trying to work with what I have - adapting to what's there. Sealing the lid to the box itself will probably be the toughest part! I feel it needs to be easily removable for "field servicing" - so can't just RTV it on!
In hindsight - I think sourcing other bulkhead water-sealed connectors for the other connections is an excellent idea, with wiring terminating to soldered connections at the board. I'm trying to use a very small overall box size though, and likely not much room inside for the interior portion of such connectors. This is the first MS I've built so the goal was to assemble per the instructions and get it working! If I were to do another (especially the relay board) - I'd re-think it from the "sealed box" perspective and modify accordingly.
Jeff
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Ollie8974
Re: Waterproof D-Sub Connector
GSGuy,
Where did you find the aluminum chassis box you used? How high is it?
The box I am using for the relay box, pn EAF 200 is 1.85 Inches high.
The height is the same as the top of the relays.
I had to cut a hole in the top to clear the relays, then fabricate a flat piece to cover the hole.
I am using the GM weather pack connectors on the wire harness.
Link to the Aluminum Chassis Box.
http://www.lmbheeger.com/products.asp?catid=68
Where did you find the aluminum chassis box you used? How high is it?
The box I am using for the relay box, pn EAF 200 is 1.85 Inches high.
The height is the same as the top of the relays.
I had to cut a hole in the top to clear the relays, then fabricate a flat piece to cover the hole.
I am using the GM weather pack connectors on the wire harness.
Link to the Aluminum Chassis Box.
http://www.lmbheeger.com/products.asp?catid=68
Re: Waterproof D-Sub Connector
Same company Ollie - it's one of LMB's "Cap Cover Chassis" - Model 643C. It's 3" high but I plan to cut that down to about 2-1/4" to just clear the relay tops. 6"x 4"x3" high. This would easily clear the relays, but too high for my application. I need to keep the overall height down to ~2.5".
FWIW I just purchased the EAF 200 with flanged endplates - intending to do what you described (haven't received it yet). It seems like the relays still will stick up too high to easily cover them, once the cover is clearanced? How exactly did you do this? My relays measure 2-1/8" above the bottom of the chassis (with the board in next to the bottom slot). In the bottom slot it looks like the relay posts could contact and short to the chassis. I suppose these could be shortened, something I may yet do to keep it as short as possible.
This could be a viable "plan-B" though, if a good way could be devised to seal the extruded chassis back up. So far I've just been working out the details on how I'd seal up the relay board/chassis, identifying parts and planning on how exactly it would be accomplished. The waterproof D-sub connector was a big jump in that direction - as originally I was thinking I'd have to use an outer box big enough to include the regular D-sub cable connector inside the box - just sealing around the cable opening. That led to way too big of a box. Might be able to do away with the outer box all together?
Jeff
FWIW I just purchased the EAF 200 with flanged endplates - intending to do what you described (haven't received it yet). It seems like the relays still will stick up too high to easily cover them, once the cover is clearanced? How exactly did you do this? My relays measure 2-1/8" above the bottom of the chassis (with the board in next to the bottom slot). In the bottom slot it looks like the relay posts could contact and short to the chassis. I suppose these could be shortened, something I may yet do to keep it as short as possible.
This could be a viable "plan-B" though, if a good way could be devised to seal the extruded chassis back up. So far I've just been working out the details on how I'd seal up the relay board/chassis, identifying parts and planning on how exactly it would be accomplished. The waterproof D-sub connector was a big jump in that direction - as originally I was thinking I'd have to use an outer box big enough to include the regular D-sub cable connector inside the box - just sealing around the cable opening. That led to way too big of a box. Might be able to do away with the outer box all together?
Jeff
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Ollie8974
Re: Waterproof D-Sub Connector
Jeff,
The above dimention I posted, 1.85 inch is the inside of the box The outside is 2 Inch.
Are you using the relay kit from DIY? That is the relay board I am using. The relays measure 1 1/2 inch above the board. With the relay board in the lowest slot, the tops are just a hair higher then the inside of the box.
I cut a hole in the top over the relays. Then fabrucated a cover out of 2 inch by 1/8 inch aluminum stock.
I got The aluminum stock a Lowe"s in is 2 inch x 1/8 inch by 4 ft. long.
Ollie
The above dimention I posted, 1.85 inch is the inside of the box The outside is 2 Inch.
Are you using the relay kit from DIY? That is the relay board I am using. The relays measure 1 1/2 inch above the board. With the relay board in the lowest slot, the tops are just a hair higher then the inside of the box.
I cut a hole in the top over the relays. Then fabrucated a cover out of 2 inch by 1/8 inch aluminum stock.
I got The aluminum stock a Lowe"s in is 2 inch x 1/8 inch by 4 ft. long.
Ollie
Re: Waterproof D-Sub Connector
Thanks for the details Ollie. Only drawback I can see by using an enclosed version of the original case is the lack of strain relief on the wires coming out for the sensors, injectors, etc. Due to lack of room inside the end plate I can't see being able to fit a standard (or multiple) gland or cord grip into the end plate? I'm thinking along the lines of maybe 3 different wire groups coming out of the case - Injectors, main and switched power/ground, and sensors/PIP/SAW signals. In the extruded case it seems only some grommets could be fitted into the end plate to pass these wires through? I'd like something a little more robust to secure the wires at the case -like cord grips. These generally require around a 1/2" or 3/4" hole for mounting, plus space for the locking nut inside.
I was looking in detail exactly how I was going to mount the EDIS unit and relay "box" and run all the wiring. I noted all the sensors already have quick disconnects from the hacked off portions of the original wiring harness - either in-line or right at the sensor (even the VR sensor). What I'd like to do is re-use all these QD's and hard-wire the other end into the relay box and/or EDIS controller. Going to mount the EDIS next to the relay box on an aluminum plate, which will then be bolted to the chassis via. rubber isolators. All the engine side wiring will be in the form of a harness and be hard-wired to this controller assembly. I think that will be the cleanest way to hook it all up? I just want to make sure that the wiring is fully secured to the relay box/chassis so it can't move relative to the internal connections - hence the use of the cord grips.
My engine compartment is getting extremely tight on available space, so very limited where I can mount this unit. Because of this I've got to keep the overall size of the relay board and whatever box I enclose it in as compact as possible.
Jeff
I was looking in detail exactly how I was going to mount the EDIS unit and relay "box" and run all the wiring. I noted all the sensors already have quick disconnects from the hacked off portions of the original wiring harness - either in-line or right at the sensor (even the VR sensor). What I'd like to do is re-use all these QD's and hard-wire the other end into the relay box and/or EDIS controller. Going to mount the EDIS next to the relay box on an aluminum plate, which will then be bolted to the chassis via. rubber isolators. All the engine side wiring will be in the form of a harness and be hard-wired to this controller assembly. I think that will be the cleanest way to hook it all up? I just want to make sure that the wiring is fully secured to the relay box/chassis so it can't move relative to the internal connections - hence the use of the cord grips.
My engine compartment is getting extremely tight on available space, so very limited where I can mount this unit. Because of this I've got to keep the overall size of the relay board and whatever box I enclose it in as compact as possible.
Jeff
Re: Waterproof D-Sub Connector
Man - I'm really waffling on this project - but here's where it's going. 
Time to revisit the goals - 1) water resistant with enclosed electronics, 2) sealed wiring going into the enclosure with strain relief, and 3) make it as compact as possible.
1) Checked the EAF/EAS 200 housing dimensions on LMB HEEGER's site, and measured the assembled relay board and at least in my case, it looks like if the board is slotted into the lowest slot, it'll fit fully inside (with just 0.006" clearance!). That's pretty tight, so will have to confirm when the new EAF200 arrives. My earlier fears with the lugs sticking down on the bottom of the board was resolved with some easy side-cutter work. Was thinking of fitting some sort of thin silicone strip down into the mating grooves in the case halves to help with sealing, and that could provide another 0.010" clearance. This same gasket material could be used around the end plates to help sealing there. As it stands now - this case looks like the right move. It's the most compact solution, minimizes complexity and rugged. (and Ollie - I did get my relay board kit from DIY Autotune.)
2) Utilizing the L-Com D-sub connector takes care of waterproofing the Megasquirt connection - negating the need for going to a larger external case. The other wiring connections will have to be fitted with simple grommets where they exit the case, with careful sizing to the outer jacketing (or shrink tube wrapping) to create a good seal. The wires will still need to be strain relief mounted, but I can do this externally with some adell clamps situated on the same plate the case will be attached to. I'll still be mounting the relay case and EDIS module on a custom aluminum plate - which will attached to the car chassis (tube frame) with rubber standoff/isolators affording some vibration protection.
3) Can't get much more compact than the original style EAF extruded case, only 1.85" high. This will work very favorably in my "case".
Still trying to decide how I'll go with the wiring quick disconnects for the sensors and other wiring. I really want some kind of QD connections near the case, so the many conductors can be easily seperated and re-connected during any engine (or electronics) R&R work. That way the complete "engine" wiring harness can be fitted to (and stay with) the engine assembly during initial configuration and again during any R&R work. Have a multi-pin (13-pin) plug that must have come off the original Subaru engine that could be useful here. Also have I believe up to 9-pin mate-n-lock plugs to choose from.
I'll be sure to post some pictures as the board and wiring goes together.
Jeff
Time to revisit the goals - 1) water resistant with enclosed electronics, 2) sealed wiring going into the enclosure with strain relief, and 3) make it as compact as possible.
1) Checked the EAF/EAS 200 housing dimensions on LMB HEEGER's site, and measured the assembled relay board and at least in my case, it looks like if the board is slotted into the lowest slot, it'll fit fully inside (with just 0.006" clearance!). That's pretty tight, so will have to confirm when the new EAF200 arrives. My earlier fears with the lugs sticking down on the bottom of the board was resolved with some easy side-cutter work. Was thinking of fitting some sort of thin silicone strip down into the mating grooves in the case halves to help with sealing, and that could provide another 0.010" clearance. This same gasket material could be used around the end plates to help sealing there. As it stands now - this case looks like the right move. It's the most compact solution, minimizes complexity and rugged. (and Ollie - I did get my relay board kit from DIY Autotune.)
2) Utilizing the L-Com D-sub connector takes care of waterproofing the Megasquirt connection - negating the need for going to a larger external case. The other wiring connections will have to be fitted with simple grommets where they exit the case, with careful sizing to the outer jacketing (or shrink tube wrapping) to create a good seal. The wires will still need to be strain relief mounted, but I can do this externally with some adell clamps situated on the same plate the case will be attached to. I'll still be mounting the relay case and EDIS module on a custom aluminum plate - which will attached to the car chassis (tube frame) with rubber standoff/isolators affording some vibration protection.
3) Can't get much more compact than the original style EAF extruded case, only 1.85" high. This will work very favorably in my "case".
Still trying to decide how I'll go with the wiring quick disconnects for the sensors and other wiring. I really want some kind of QD connections near the case, so the many conductors can be easily seperated and re-connected during any engine (or electronics) R&R work. That way the complete "engine" wiring harness can be fitted to (and stay with) the engine assembly during initial configuration and again during any R&R work. Have a multi-pin (13-pin) plug that must have come off the original Subaru engine that could be useful here. Also have I believe up to 9-pin mate-n-lock plugs to choose from.
I'll be sure to post some pictures as the board and wiring goes together.
Jeff
Re: Waterproof D-Sub Connector
A little follow up to my quest to create a water resistant case for my Relay Board. I got the LMB Heeger EAF 200 case - and you were 100% on the money Ollie, the relay board will not fit completely inside the case as the relays sit a touch too high. Removing a portion of the upper case half above the relays will allow it to clear and close completely and it looks like a simple flat plate on top of that can re-seal the hole. That all appears to be the "easy part".
Bad news is the waterproof D-sub connector. In my excitement to get one of these I ordered the 25 pin L-Com version. Really pleased with the quality and it looked like it would work perfectly - except as Kristian alluded to - I needed a 37 pin version!!! DOH!!
Didn't even dawn on me to actually check the pin count....
Another search and attempted to source the CONEC version, and another I came across from FCT Group. Now you know, each has 25 pin versions readily available on-line, and each makes a 37 pin version (which would be perfect), but no-one carries it in stock! Got my fingers crossed with one last vendor check, but most require a minimum order of over $100+ for any special order items - more than I want to pay for a connector hood! Aggrivating when you know the product is out there, but basically can't get it!
I may end up just using the connector kit supplied with the board, or maybe jury-rig some sort of cover. At least the DB-37 connector from the board will now be 100% supported by the case end, and most of the electronics will be mostly enclosed inside.
I'll post some pics once I modify the case.
Jeff
Bad news is the waterproof D-sub connector. In my excitement to get one of these I ordered the 25 pin L-Com version. Really pleased with the quality and it looked like it would work perfectly - except as Kristian alluded to - I needed a 37 pin version!!! DOH!!
Didn't even dawn on me to actually check the pin count....Another search and attempted to source the CONEC version, and another I came across from FCT Group. Now you know, each has 25 pin versions readily available on-line, and each makes a 37 pin version (which would be perfect), but no-one carries it in stock! Got my fingers crossed with one last vendor check, but most require a minimum order of over $100+ for any special order items - more than I want to pay for a connector hood! Aggrivating when you know the product is out there, but basically can't get it!
I may end up just using the connector kit supplied with the board, or maybe jury-rig some sort of cover. At least the DB-37 connector from the board will now be 100% supported by the case end, and most of the electronics will be mostly enclosed inside.
I'll post some pics once I modify the case.
Jeff
Re: Waterproof D-Sub Connector
[quote=Still trying to decide how I'll go with the wiring quick disconnects for the sensors and other wiring. I really want some kind of QD connections near the case, so the many conductors can be easily seperated and re-connected during any engine (or electronics) R&R work. That way the complete "engine" wiring harness can be fitted to (and stay with) the engine assembly during initial configuration and again during any R&R work. Have a multi-pin (13-pin) plug that must have come off the original Subaru engine that could be useful here. Also have I believe up to 9-pin mate-n-lock plugs to choose from.
I'll be sure to post some pictures as the board and wiring goes together.
Jeff[/quote]
I dont know what suggestions to offer for the water proof connection at the relay board, as my relay board will be inside the car. I plan on drilling one or two holes in the end plate and using a gromet to protect the wire.
I think your best bet for quick disconnects are the GM Weather pack connectors. That is what I will be using, they are farly inexpensive and readily avialible.
I will ues a combination of Weather Pack and Metric-pack 280 for the quick disconnect.
I'll be sure to post some pictures as the board and wiring goes together.
Jeff[/quote]
I dont know what suggestions to offer for the water proof connection at the relay board, as my relay board will be inside the car. I plan on drilling one or two holes in the end plate and using a gromet to protect the wire.
I think your best bet for quick disconnects are the GM Weather pack connectors. That is what I will be using, they are farly inexpensive and readily avialible.
I will ues a combination of Weather Pack and Metric-pack 280 for the quick disconnect.