MS1 not communicating

[pishta68]

I have an MS1 with V2.2 board and I CANNOT get this to communicate with anything. I have a real prolific USB-serial adapter that I can loopback via pin 2-3 to a serial tester, a fake PL2303 based cable that doesnt work period, and even a RS232 cable on my desktop PC that doesnt even loopback. So the Prolific usb-serial is my only hope but it doesnt see the MS in tunerstudio. I have trouobleshooted the MAX232 chip and it checks out (ie pin 12-13 on 40pin CPU socket goes to pin 11-12 on MAX232 and I get the proper voltage 5 and 10V on various test points off the chip) but it just doesnt wanna talk to tunerstudio. All port tests fail in Tunerstudio and I have double and triple checked com port settings on PC and Tunerstudio. DOes it sound like I have a bad MS1 chip? I have an MS2 daughterboard I can try but wanna test teh MS1 before I get into the MS2. My stimboard works as far as I can tell, I can vary the frequency of the injector LED flashes and the other pots seem to light up their LED's per design. I get all the correct voltages per the V2.2 assembly instructions...help!

[pishta68]

hold on. just read the serial test part and Im NOT getting loopback on 12-13 on 40 pin socket pins w/power. Whats up? Seems Im getting continuity to pins but no loopback?

[trakkies]

Use the desktop and proper serial port to establish things before the USB converter. Do check the serial cable is correctly wired, though - reversal types are around.

[Matt Cramer]

hold on. just read the serial test part and Im NOT getting loopback on 12-13 on 40 pin socket pins w/power. Whats up? Seems Im getting continuity to pins but no loopback?

Sounds like a dead serial chip if pins 2-3 of the DB9 loop back but not pins 12-13 on the CPU socket.

[pishta68]

dead serial chip? Thought of that and socketed/ replaced it...twice. same deal. I can get loopback on serial chip 13/14 (just pin 2/3 trace ends) and I get continuity on the 40 pin sockets 12/13 to serial chip 11/12 I just can seem to get MAX232 under power to bridge 11/12 (loopback) when stim is powering board. I get 5V to pin 16 and ground on 15 of MAX232 so it looks like im getting inverted voltage here and there, stepped up and so forth. I believe the chip is functioning and I get the power test matrix onto the 40 pin socket. THis seems like such a simple board to trace the paths, but...What voltages should I be seeing on the stim powered board on the MAX232 chip? I see a few 7.xx and -6.xx are I suppose to be seeing 10V's?

[pishta68]

let me clarify, I cant get the 40 pin loopback jumper to show a loopback on the hyperterm while under power. But my stim looks fine, I can alter FI pulses and power enrichment circuit with the pots. Any other tests I can do?

[trakkies]

Did you check the serial cable (RS232) wasn't a null modem type? if it were, that would explain a loopback working where no electronics are involved.

Difficult to do, but it would be good to establish one of your computers with link did actually work with a known good MS, and that a computer/link tested and working on an MS doesn't actually work on your MS.

[Bernard Fife]

pishta68,

You could try the tips here: http://www.megamanual.com/connect.htm#ms1

Lance.

[pishta68]

success! After literally 8 days of working to get a laptop that actually had a serial port on the back (as opposed to a parallel port which for 2 days I thought was a serial port) up and running with an OS that was compatible with the freaking USB serial dongle piece of shoot I had and the serial cable which had the wrong connectors on it (male/female and NO one as having fun!) and replacing all the .1uf caps around the NEW MAX232 chip...I just plugged the entire MS case's male DB9 into the back of my desktop PC's female DB9 serial port! So I got the MS propped up on a stand and its sticking out of the back of the computer like a knife stuck in the back of the guy that sold me the crappy USB/Serial dongle! it worked great, got loopback on my 40 pin socket 12/13 jumper under stip power, replaced the jumper with the MS2 daughterboard and even wrote to the bootloader of the MS2 daughterboard with the latest S19 file or whatever that was. I loaded the ini file too but there should be a little better documentation in the procedure. The "You will need to download and activate the latest INI file. Under the 'File/Project/Project Properties' of TunerStudio, click on the 'Other' check box" box wasnt there. I stumbled across a warning page that said the firmware didnt match the hardware or something like that and asked me where the ini file was and I pointed it to it and it loaded. It then asks me to "..Finally, reload the MSQ file (aka. 'tune') you saved above..." so i guess that means you save what you got running, then open it again? OK. all looks good, the gauges come up, cool, cool, my first gauge (default tach) is going from 0-8000 and back, is that right? and it says SET ECU on the bottom. any more hints? I feel i finally got this under control after almost throwing in the towel (and the MS into the trash) of course it was the last night of my vacation, but ill take it! Now to get my stim back up and functioning. I no longer have alternating injector lights, they are in unison and I cant get the other 2 lights to come on on the MS case. Its a rollercoaster trainwreck of bare wires and breadboarding so I may have to R&R it. So much for saving $20 bucks and 4-5 days shipping!

[trakkies]

Set ECU is the first thing you have to do after loading new code. Under 'fuel settings - general settings' Nothing will work until you do this.

[pishta68]

Set ecu in fuel settings:general...good to know. Thanks. Is it safe to swap between ms1 and ms2 chips with the switching off/on of the ms2 12v iac servo pullup jumper? making progress! This thread should be the poster child of serial cable problems and resolutions. If it helps another user, then Itll be worth it. Recapping that even a Serial to ethernet (cisco) cable would not even loop back reliably by shorting pins on RJ45 end at 9600 let alone 115xxx, lots of garbage, ie "F" would echo back as "D" and so on. Use a good DB9-DB9 serial cable if all adaptations of usb or adapters fail.

[trakkies]

I'm willing to bet the cable you used wasn't correctly wired. In my workshop, I have a 5 metre long serial cable running from the Win7 desktop to workbench for MS use. Made up using twin screened microphone cable. No problems with that.

[pishta68]

I believe its all in the shielding of the cable used. shielded mic cable would be a great candidate. Maybe Ill try to cobble one up using coaxial cable, that stuff is bulletproof. Its 75 Ohm if that makes a difference.

on a side note..check this little doodad out, its a drop in DB9 to USB converter using the proven FTDI chip. looks like the cats azz! just remove the Max232 chip and jump the 13/12 sockets and the 14/11 sockets. USB powered!
$20.00 US at Mouser! looks promising for a USB alternative?
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/FTD ... N4WlteGg==

[trakkies]

You have a transmit and receive circuit so the configuration is two conductors plus common ground, provided by the screen. MS also outputs 5v to the DB9 - but this isn't needed for use with a PC.
I doubt the screening makes much difference over a short run - unless in a very hostile environment. It's actually a very robust system - it's normally the conversion to USB where the problems lie.