Help me make some decisions...

[loren]

Here we go...

1976 Triumph Spitfire 1500 engine
MS-II

Looking to fit a 2002 Honda intake manifold with the use of an adapter to go between the manifold and head. Manifold arrived today. Looks good, about what I expected. Will do some gross fit checking on the car tomorrow, take some measurements and some photos, but I think it'll work.

Manifold came complete with injectors and fuel rail. No throttle body, but I think any standard Honda TB will fit. (anybody got one cheap?)

The injectors are high impedence (12.5 ohms), so that's good.

There is a MAP sensor on the manifold. Should I consider using that one instead of the one built into the MS? Pros & Cons? If I don't use it, is it a part anyone would have a need for, or should I just pitch it?

Anybody familiar with Honda TB's? I assume it would have a TPS, and since it's not on the manifold, the idle control must be part of the TB. Would I be better off fitting an external ISC valve, or trying to use the Honda setup? Is the Honda TPS a good usable piece?

No IAT. I guess I'd do best to source a standard GM piece for that. And that should fit in the air intake ahead of the TB, correct? Clean airflow, relatively unaffected by heat transfer from the manifold?

CLT... can I use the same sensor that runs my temp gauge, or do I have to fit a second sensor?

Am I forgetting anything? I'll consider fuel supply as a separate entity, and I'm not dealing with ignition just yet. (getting tach signal from a Pertronix for now) Just trying to get a good plan together for the intake and sensors.

[wojeepster]

for the throttle body search www.car-part.com and go to the page with the asterisk for the lowest priced part! sometimes the prices are incredibly cheap.

[loren]

Great resource! Wonder why I hadn't seen that one before? (they have a 2002 Civic TB for as little as $50... I'd like to spend less, but that's not too bad considering I got the manifold, injectors & fuel rail all for $45 shipped)

[bionicbelly]

I would ditch the map sensor. Maybe you could use the map sensor location for your IAT sensor. I did this with the cold start injector on my BMW. I had to drill out the manifold so the temp sensor would fit, then i made a plate with the same footprint as the injector and drilled and tapped it for the temp sensor. Just a thought. MS program is all set up for their map sensor, and it would probably be alot less work to use it rather than figure out how to calibrate/program for the use of another, but then I'm kinda lazy.

[loren]

That's what I expected regarding the MAP sensor. Hadn't thought of using that location for the IAT. For some reason, I didn't think the IAT belonged in the manifold itself, but further upstream in the intake tubing.

[78Spit1500Fed]

1976 Triumph Spitfire 1500 engine
MS-II

Looking to fit a 2002 Honda intake manifold with the use of an adapter to go between the manifold and head...

Got any pictures?

Any reason you picked that particular intake?

-Brian

[loren]

Pictures are coming. I'm active on at least 3 different forums (this one's the most important, of course!) and everybody wants photos and updates. So, rather than redundantly posting stuff everywhere, I'm setting up a new web log. Photos will go there.

Why this manifold? Well, In my searching around looking at different manifolds, I found that a lot of modern small FWD cars have really compact manifolds that brilliantly cram long runners into tight spaces. I liked that because I wanted long runners and I don't have a lot of space. I also discovered plastic manifolds, and did a bunch of research on them... enough to learn that I'm willing to give one a try.

One manifold that really sparked my eye was a Hyundai manifold, but the seller couldn't tell me WHICH Hyundai it was from, and I couldn't figure it out. I liked that one better than the one I have because the TB mounted to the front rather than the top, but I think this one will do. I chose this one because it was readily available and cheap. Being a Honda manifold, it should be easy to replace, easy to find a TB to fit, etc. And if I -do- happen to have problems with the plastic manifold, any D17A1 manifold will fit my adapter, so I have options.

Today I removed my intake manifold (the one with the carb on it... ack!.. Pffft!) and blocked this Honda manifold into the position it will fit. Took a bunch of measurements and a bunch of photos (will be on the blog tonight). Looks like it should fit okay.

Also did some more manifold research and learned that they're made of a particular type of high-temp Nylon that's good for up to 250 degrees. After reassembling the car, I started it and probed around the engine compartment and found that even if I let the engine temp get up to 200 degrees (unplugged the fan... normal op temp is 180-190), the temp within 3" of the exhaust manifold only reaches about 75 C (167 F), typically, it stays about 60-65 spiking to 70-72 when the fan kicks on. Temp of the actual aluminum intake manifold is 100 C (212 F) about an inch from the head (which this plastic manifold will be 4-5" away from), and 85 C (185 F) a few inches from the head. Bottom side of the intake manifold (closer to the header pipes, but still a few inches from the head) was still only 85-90 C. So, I'm not too concerned about overheating the plastic manifold, though I still may fit a head shield.

Air intake temp going into the carb was over 50 C! That sucks! Good thing I'll be pulling air from in front of the radiator for the FI.

Enough rambling... still waiting for the Honda experts to chime in. I'd really like some insight on the Honda TB (I measured, btw... the bolt pattern is 60mm square, is that standard for anything other than a Honda?) before I buy one. If I know the one that fits this manifold is Megasquirty goodness, I'll go ahead and get one... but if it's iffy, I might be better seeking other options.

Oh, and can anyone help me identify the injectors on this manifold? They're from a 2002 Honda Civic LX D17A1 Single Cam, if that helps.

[78Spit1500Fed]

I like your sig... LBC + technology = reliable style.

Your under-hood temps should be way lower than most modern FWD cars. Don't forget the cooling action of the incoming air. You could negate 10+ degrees of underhood temps pretty easily.

Be sure to post that blog address. I'm intrigued by the concept; I may just try something like this to get Smitty on the road while I build my 4AGE.

-Brian

[loren]

Your timing is right on! I just finished doing the initial posts to my blog. I linked it to my "website" link, so you can get to it from any of my posts. Here's the link:
http://invisiblesun.org/blog

[pluisje]

case you guys like to hear about my Spitfire on EFI,
it runs on a 36-1 sprocket, Weber injection bodies and MS-2.

i'll try to get any intresting things here;
http://www.msruns.com/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=22683

hoop you get some idea's
and work your way trough installation,
it runs like heck with to much air