Innovate LC-1 doesn't work right after re-wire

[RobH]

My Innovate worked just fine for about a year. My car was out of comission for the past 10+ months, I just recently rewired the car from MS2 to Microsquirt. Here's the scoop on the Wideband sensor: when I turn the ignition on the LED gives proper indication (slow, normal pulses for about a minute til it warms up then goes solid). I have done the free air calibration. When I operate my car the o2 signal (setup for WB Innovate 0_5V) stays fixed at 17:1 or so. I probed the output wire from the LC-1 and am getting steady 0V.

Here's the tricky part to me- when I run LogWorks2 the computer talks to the hardware (thru DB9) just fine and the needle bounces all around, bounces around too much. I went into the LM Programmer and recalibrated for AFR output @ 14.7:1 as well and recalibrated analog out 2 accordingly. I have not yet updated the firmware. Any clue as to what is going on here? Matt Cramer could you maybe point me in the right direction? I bough this controller a couple years ago from DIYAutoTune.

Thanks in advance.

[msoultan]

I've got plenty of experience working with a funky LC-1!

anyways, here's what I'd try. Power on the LC-1, run LM Programmer and reset the unit to it's defaults. Also make sure the fuel type is set to gasoline. Turn the LC-1 off and then take the sensor out of the exhaust and unplug it from the LC-1. Turn on the LC-1 for about 10 seconds, turn it off and plug it back in - leave the sensor out of the exhaust pipe. Turn on the LC-1, and run logworks. It should reinitialize the hardware and then perform a free-air calibration. It should then read something like 20.8:1 if I remember correctly. If you take a bic lighter and just let the butane run under the sensor while the LC-1's on, it should go super rich and then when you take it away swing back to 20.8.

If that works correctly, stick the sensor back in the exhaust pipe and fire it up. Run logworks and see what it reports. One thing to remember is that you need to cycle the LC-1's power after running LM Programmer otherwise it stays in programming mode. Also make sure that the fuel type doesn't change to something other than gasoline. I had a sensor that would not stay on gasoline and finally I brought it back to Innovate at they gave me another one.

let us know how that works out.
Mike

[Matt Cramer]

Check the voltage on the MS's O2 sensor input pin first; does it track with the LogWorks reading or not?

[RobH]

This procedure looks well thought out. i will try it when I get home, thanks!

Matt- early on (before recalibration) I measured 0V while the car was running. I measured right out of the LC-1 controller. Heater ground and signal grounds were wired up. I checked again last night but this time only the Heater ground was plugged in and I got 0V on the output with engine running, not sure if the signal grounds need to be grounded to get an accurate voltage so I didn't put too much faith into this last measurement.

I'll check again when I get home, this time with signal grounds connected.

Thanks guys!

[msoultan]

Definitely make sure everything is grounded! And I believe the manual states to make sure they're all grounded to the same location. I would still go through the whole recalibration (disconnecting sensor, etc) process just so you know that you're starting from a good point. Were you to discuss this issue with Innovate, that's what they'd ask you to do anyways.

Mike

[RobH]

I should have been more specific in my last post, obviously I hooked up all grounds before hooking the WB up to a running engine and MS, however I did test voltage on the brown lead of the LC-1 w/ just the LC-1 on prior to turning the car on...

Soo- I went thru the process of recalibrating as outlined above and results were exactly as you mentioned! 20.8 by itself and with a Bic feeding gas I read 10:1 AFR on LogWorks. (all grounds were hooked up for this test). However, I still get 0.00V on Analog Out 2. For kicks I reconfigured Analog Out 1 for 1V at lean and 3V at rich and measured voltage (after cycling power) and got 0.00V on Analog Out 1. I would say it's clear to me that LC-1 is no longer supplying juice to it's Analog outputs- is there a fuse somewhere on this thing?

Rob

[RobH]

One comment- I have a 7-wire unit.
My blue wire is going to a chassis ground for my heater ground. My white and green leads are going to Microsquirt signal ground.

This means that all my ground aren't wired together to avoid feeding the noisy heater ground into my signal ground.

I doubt it but could this cause issues with a floating ground to megasquirt?

[msoultan]

I should have been more specific in my last post, obviously I hooked up all grounds before hooking the WB up to a running engine and MS, however I did test voltage on the brown lead of the LC-1 w/ just the LC-1 on prior to turning the car on...

Soo- I went thru the process of recalibrating as outlined above and results were exactly as you mentioned! 20.8 by itself and with a Bic feeding gas I read 10:1 AFR on LogWorks. (all grounds were hooked up for this test). However, I still get 0.00V on Analog Out 2. For kicks I reconfigured Analog Out 1 for 1V at lean and 3V at rich and measured voltage (after cycling power) and got 0.00V on Analog Out 1. I would say it's clear to me that LC-1 is no longer supplying juice to it's Analog outputs- is there a fuse somewhere on this thing?

Rob

Yeah, it sounds like something is screwy with your LC-1. Also, are you sure that you've got a good solid 12v going to the LC-1? If so, I'd give the innovate people a call and I think you will most likely talk to Felipe. Tell him what you went through and ask him if it's possible to send it in and have it checked out. They were really cool and replaced my funky unit - maybe they'll do the same for you.

As far a the grounds, I'd just ground them all to the same place. You gotta be very careful about ground things to different places because you can actually create a path for other devices to be grounded sending currents where you really didn't want them to go.

Mike

[RobH]

Thanks Mike, and you're absolutely right about grounding practices. Actually, that's why I seperated Heater ground and signal ground. I'm trying to keep signal ground sacred and clean.

I'm pretty bummed about having to wait another week or two until I can get my AFR dialed in.

[msoultan]

Yeah, I'd run all the grounds to the same place. Here's the excerpt from the manual about grounds:

2.3 Electrical Grounding Concerns
The electrical environment inside a car provides unique challenges, combining high voltages and
currents, low-voltage signals, convoluted signal paths, and variable conditions (i.e., fans turning
on and off, or starter cranking).
When using precision electronics, it is important for ALL electronics to share a common ground.
Remember that “Ground” is more than just the return path for any circuit- it is also the reference
against which any voltage is measured.
Since it is not always practical to ground every device to the exact same location, here are some
tips on grounding:
1. The BEST grounding scheme is all grounds (i.e., ECU, Gauges, LC1 heater, LC1
system, etc.) SOLDERED into a single lug and bolted to the engine block.
2. The next best is all grounds attached to the same source, as close as possible, but on
separate lugs. This is because even the corrosion between lugs can create ground
offset and noise. Incidentally, this is why many ECUs have separate ground wires for
injectors vs. ECU system ground- separating high voltages and low voltages reduces
noise.
3. Grounding to the engine block is usually better than grounding to the frame.
4. Grounding a gauge to the radio is usually bad- ground offset can vary with volume.
5. Grounding to an ECU housing is generally not optimal- housings are strapped to the
frame for shielding, but not necessarily grounded.
6. One of the WORST things to do is to ground most of your electronics to one place (i.e.
the engine block), but ground one device somewhere else (i.e., the frame). Not only can
this result in ground offsets, it can also create a “path of least resistance” for high
currents THROUGH a low-current device. This can result in melted wires and vaporized
diodes, when, for example, starter currents flow through gauges.

Sounds like you had #6

[RobH]

In the interest of others who will read this thread and want some closure on LC1 grounding issues:

http://www.pftuning.com/megasquirt/Mega ... d_2009.pdf

Note slide 25 states that the LC1 Analog and power grounds should be grounded seperately (2 different ring terminals) to a central point.

[msoultan]

In the interest of others who will read this thread and want some closure on LC1 grounding issues:

http://www.pftuning.com/megasquirt/Mega ... d_2009.pdf

Note slide 25 states that the LC1 Analog and power grounds should be grounded seperately (2 different ring terminals) to a central point.

If I remember correctly, that's also what the LC-1 manual states as well ;)

Mike